[Trick]

Alright, I drafted six time this weekend. Made at least the second round in 4 of them. In one game I played I pondered the scenario and tried to figure the optimum play, let's see what you guys think.

I'm playing Red/Black and it's turn four, for me. I have no creatures in play. My opponent is playing a Green/White deck and has a Kitchen Finks as well as a Medicine Runner in play. I'm about to play Murderous Redcap. Which do I target with the 2 damage? Does it even matter? What do you guys think? I'll put my answer below in a spoiler tag.

I shot the Kitchen Finks with the 2 damage, making him return as a 2/1 and letting my opponent gain the two life. This way, no matter which he attacks with (if either) I can block with the Redcap, and when it returns I can shoot the other for 1. So it's a possible 2 for 1 in card advantage but not immediate.

The flip side is that you can guarantee parity in card advantage by shooting the Medicine Runner thus earning you a 1 for 1 exchange even if the Redcap does nothing else.

It wasn't game defining, nor was it that big of a deal but good Magic is defined by always seeking to make the right play and I don't know which one was the right one.

What do you guys think?

-- Trick

[imachampion]

Senerio 1: You shoot the Medicine Runner leaving you with a Murderous Redcap (2/2) in play and your opponent with a Kitchen Finks (3/2) in play. If he attacked you would block killing both of your men. When they returned to play via Persist he would gain the 2 life and you would kill it in response wiping the board.

End result. Empty board.

Senerio 2: You shoot the Kitchen Finks leaving you with a Murderous Redcap (2/2) in play and your opponent Kitchen Finks (2/1) and a Medicine Runner (2/1). If he attacks with either or even both...you block either one and trade. When your Murderous Redcap comes back into play you could "Ping" the other creature killing it.

End result. Empty opponents board and you with a 1/1 Murderous Redcap.


You clearly made the right play. Even if your opponent were to kill your Murderous Redcap before you could have blocked to secure the 2 for 1...you would get to take a guy out.

[Trick]

But doesn't Scenario 1 also leave me with a 1/1 Redcap?

[BassmanARW]

They both result in you having a 1/1 Redcap.

In scenario 1, you kill the runner and have a 2/2 redcap against a 3/2 finks.

Finks attacks and you block.
They trade and each come back with a -1/-1 counter.
The OPP gains 2 life and you have the option of what to assign the 1 damage to.
You take out the 1/1 Finks.
And you are left with a 1/1 Recap.

Now, here is a question:
In scenario 2, when he is against the 2/1 runner and 2/1 finks on the OPP's turn...
assuming they both attack, can redcap block finks, trade, and then have his 1 damage come back to take out the runner before you get hit with Medicine Runner's 2 damage to you?

If he cannot stop Runner's attack then you made the incorrect play.
By killing the medicine runner you would have been left with only 1 attacker instead of 2.

So because you take out finks which comes back...
On his turn, he attacks with the 2/1 Medicine Runner and the 2/1 Finks. You block either one, but take 2 damage from the other.

If he can stop Runner with his persisted CIP ability then it made no difference what the play was.

[imachampion]

They both result in you having a 1/1 Redcap.

In scenario 1, you kill the runner and have a 2/2 redcap against a 3/2 finks.

Finks attacks and you block.
They trade and each come back with a -1/-1 counter.
The OPP gains 2 life and you have the option of what to assign the 1 damage to.
You take out the 1/1 Finks.
And you are left with a 1/1 Recap.

Now, here is a question:
In scenario 2, when he is against the 2/1 runner and 2/1 finks on the OPP's turn...
assuming they both attack, can redcap block finks, trade, and then have his 1 damage come back to take out the runner before you get hit with Medicine Runner's 2 damage to you?

If he cannot stop Runner's attack then you made the incorrect play.
By killing the medicine runner you would have been left with only 1 attacker instead of 2.

So because you take out finks which comes back...
On his turn, he attacks with the 2/1 Medicine Runner and the 2/1 Finks. You block either one, but take 2 damage from the other.

If he can stop Runner with his persisted CIP ability then it made no difference what the play was.

The problem with taking senerio 1 would be if they kill Murderous Redcap before he attacks. If he doesn't attack then you will deal 1 damage to him which isn't enough to kill him. He would be left with a 3/2 on the board. This is strictly worse than Senerio 2 where the worst thing that could happen is your opponent being left with a 2/1.

@Trick,
Yeah. I messed that up. Either way you end with a 1/1 Murderous Redcap. However as stated above...the worst case senerio would be senerio 1.

[BigFiber]

6, 1, half dozen the other? 

The only thing I can think of is if you kill the runner first (if all things remain the same) and he swings with Finks, you trade with Finks and you end up with 1/1 Cap and no damage taken. If you shoot Finks and he swings with both, you take 2 damage and end up with 1/1 Cap. Is this the end of the world? No. But it is 2 damage.

[imachampion]

6, 1, half dozen the other? 

The only thing I can think of is if you kill the runner first (if all things remain the same) and he swings with Finks, you trade with Finks and you end up with 1/1 Cap and no damage taken. If you shoot Finks and he swings with both, you take 2 damage and end up with 1/1 Cap. Is this the end of the world? No. But it is 2 damage.

You are correct here...but I think this is a decision where you need to consider..."What if?" If your Murderous Redcap gets "capped" before Kitchen Finks attacks...you will be left with a 1/1 facing a 3/2. In this sense I think that this is a bad situation. I would rather take 2 damage while leaving myself in a managable position. Just my 2 cents though.

[BigFiber]

You are correct here...but I think this is a decision where you need to consider..."What if?" If your Murderous Redcap gets "capped" before Kitchen Finks attacks...you will be left with a 1/1 facing a 3/2. In this sense I think that this is a bad situation. I would rather take 2 damage while leaving myself in a managable position. Just my 2 cents though.

Yea, I agree with you. I guess I was working under "perfect information". If that were my board, I would cap the finks and take 2 in hopes of clearing the board.

Now, if Trick was at 2... ;)

[esternaefil]

You definitely kill the kitchen finks.

See.  Thing is.  Persist is a triggered ability that goes on the stack in Last In First Out order.

When both the finks and the redcap go to the yard after combat damage resolves, the triggers go on the stack with the active player's trigger going on bottom (triggers first according to the APNAP rule [Active Player - Non Active Player]).  This puts your redcap into play before the finks has returned to play at all forcing you to target your opponent as his board is then empty (remember you had killed his medicine runner with the first triggered redcap shot).  You then have a 1/1 redcap against his 2/1 finks.

If you were to kill their finks first, then no matter how they attack in the next turn, when your persist trigger resolves, you will have a target for the shot (as he will have either a medicine runner or a finks in play both with single toughness). and this will allow you to clear the board while maintaining your 1/1 redcap.

Now, if you are at two life, then you have to shoot the runner, then trade trade for the Finks as you won't be able to afford to take the damage from the second attacker.  Unfortunately this strands a point of damage on your opponent's dome, but such is life.