[Trick]

Do you have a shuffling routine? Or just go until it feels right?

I tend to riffle shuffle 5-6 times, then I'll pile shuffle (in piles of 6 or 8 or 10 usually) before doing a tri-cut riffle where I pick up approximately 2/3rds of the deck, cut that in half, riffle them together, take half of that and riffle it with the remaining 1/3, continuing the braiding pattern for a few more times. Then I'll do an overhand shuffle (the magician's term for the shuffle like the japanese do.)

Obviously this is limited by time constraints but that's my ideal shuffling routine.

-- Trick

[Johnny_Magic]

wow trick very detailed lol. I pile shuffle twice into six piles then riffle shuffle 6 times.

[imachampion]

I riffle shuffle 5-6 times, pile shuffle into 7 piles, and then riffle shuffle 5-6 times. If I have time I will repeat this...if not I am content with it. I do all of this while blindfolded with little people slapping my shins and demeaning me.

[Trick]

Why 7 piles? And shins? Come on, don't wimp out, have them lashing your back.

[imachampion]

I read a long time ago that when shuffling you don't want to have your deck work out evenly. Example. If there is 60 cards in a deck and you pile it out into 6 piles...this is evenly distributed. If you put them into 7 piles it is unevenly distributed. I am sure this is just an urban myth or whatever...but I have been doing it for years. I do the same thing with limited.

As for the shins. I stress that they are little people...and being that I am a giant man standing at least 9 feet tall...they wouldn't be able to reach me.

[Trick]

LOL, Nice

[MN Nick]

I do a "star" stack to start out, 5 piles, and i take cards from the top one run, then the bottom the next. Then i will overhand shuffle about half a dozen times, and work a couple riffle shuffles in. After that I tend to cut my deck 3-5 times before my opponent gets a chance to.

A friend of mine recently suggested that when doing the "overhand" style, to make sure the top card is being mixed well. With sleeves, it can be hard to riffle shuffle, so we'll take half the deck and mesh them, and sometimes not get the top card worked in well. So be cautious of that.

I think the stressing point is to make sure to get a good shuffle every time you play to avoid mana clumps. It's still hard to avoid though. last tournament, even after all that I had a clump of 6 mana in a row that essentially cost me the game.

[Lythand]

Back in the day, it used tobe legal to seperate your land and spells, and then stack the spells to land 2:1, then shuffle. The reason for this was to avoid land/spell clumps. As long as you shuffles at least 3 times, it was legal. Is this still a standard?

I can't riffle shuffle. I have like dislexic hands and have a hard time shuffleing. I ussually just mesh shuffle, and then if my opponanat wants to shuffle it, he can.

[imachampion]

I thought the ruling was 5-6 shuffle was considered sufficient. Anything less could be considered stacking.

[Lythand]

I thought the ruling was 5-6 shuffle was considered sufficient. Anything less could be considered stacking.

Well this is back in the 90's, so I am sure it had to of changed by then.

[Trick]

I don't believe there are any specifications as to how many riffles define an adequate shuffle, only that it must be adequately random such that a judge cannot spot any pattern.

[gleemax]

I also rememeber reading somewhere that the 7 pile shuffle was needed to get a truly random shuffle.  If it's even then you could stack and re stack your deck in theory.  Another method I sometime try is the pile shuffle where you add another pile with each sweep.  so you start with 1 pile, then 2, then 3, etc., but I usually stop around 9 piles because anything more gets out of hand. 

Also, when I'm pile shuffling I don't always start at the same place, I randomly pick a spot and move around.  I do the same thing when picking the piles up.  I take extra care to pile shuffle randomly because I also have never learned to properly riffle shuffle.  So I end up just mess shuffleing and/or dovetailing afterwards.

[Trick]

The mathematics state that 7 perfect riffle shuffles will return a standard 52 card deck to where it began. So we're playing with 60 cards which means the number we need is 8.

The reference of 3 riffles being good to randomize the deck is because people who track shuffling discovered that for the first three card positions could be predicted fairly accurately but after that the positions vary wildly.

[Lythand]

I take extra care to pile shuffle randomly because I also have never learned to properly riffle shuffle.  So I end up just mess shuffleing and/or dovetailing afterwards.

YES! Another non riffler like me 


So its ok to make two seperate piles of lands and spells, stack them 2:1, and as long as when a judge checks is doesnt look like a patter, its ok?

I would like one of the official judges here comment on what they are looking for when looking for non randomness.

[imachampion]

YES! Another non riffler like me 


So its ok to make two seperate piles of lands and spells, stack them 2:1, and as long as when a judge checks is doesnt look like a patter, its ok?

I would like one of the official judges here comment on what they are looking for when looking for non randomness.

If we can't get an official ruling here...I would ask the judge at your next tourney.