[gleemax]

Yeah, if it even looks slightly random and your opponent tells the judge he watched you go 2:1, then you'll get a game loss for sure.  If it's at the same randomness, but your opponet watched you shuffle the heck out of it, you probably won't. 

@Trick. I wasn't talking about 7 riffles, I was talking about 7 diffrent piles when pile shuffling.

Also, here's a question.  I've often sat and wondered when I get a mana flood/screw after my opponent shuffles my deck excesivley is they were using somekind of slight of hand or weird shuffling method to screw me over.  So my question is, after shuffling your deck and then watching your opponent shuffle your deck, can you ask a judge to check it's randomness?  And if so who would get the penalty?  I'm just wondering if there is a way to catch/punish people who stacks there opponents deck to mess with their mana.

[imachampion]

I would be impressed to see someone stack a deck without looking at the cards. If they tilt them and look at them while they are shuffling...I would call a judge.

[Lythand]

wELL ERIK IS OUR LEVEL 3 JUDGE HERE 

[MN Nick]

I caught a guy 2:1 shuffling once in a tournament. I dont know why I had never caught it before, I supposed i was into my shuffling zone, but he was even shuffling land in, and he wouldnt properly shuffle afterwards. I called him and he got mad, so i asked to shuffle his deck and he got indignant on me. He actually said "what are you doing, now im not going to draw any land!"

Heh. Important note people: ALWAYS WATCH YOUR OPPONENT.

I have never been caught by a shaky shuffle since. You have to feel comfortable requesting your opponent shuffle more or to shuffle their deck. Don't ever settle for their half assed attempt, because it's your tournament life on the line.

[Trick]

21.   Shuffling
Shuffling must be done so that the faces of the cards cannot be seen. Regardless of the method used to shuffle, players’ decks must be sufficiently randomized. Each time players shuffle their deck, they must present their deck to their opponent for additional shuffling and/or cutting. Players may request to have a Judge shuffle their cards rather than pass that duty to their opponent, this request will be honored at a Judge’s discretion. By presenting their decks to their opponents, players are stating that their decks are correct, legal, and sufficiently randomized.
 
After decks are presented and accepted, any player who does not believe his or her opponent has made a reasonable effort to sufficiently randomize his or her deck must notify a Judge. The Head Judge has final authority to determine whether a deck has been sufficiently randomized. The Head Judge also has the authority to determine if a player has used reasonable effort to randomize his or her deck. If the Head Judge believes that either the deck has not been sufficiently randomized or that a player has not made a reasonable effort to randomize his or her deck, the player will be subject to the appropriate provisions of the DCI Penalty Guidelines.

At Competitive and Professional level events players must always shuffle their opponents’ decks at the beginning of games. The Head Judge can mandate the shuffling of opponents’ decks at Regular Level Events as long as he or she announces this at the beginning of the tournament. If a shuffling effect takes place during gameplay, players may shuffle and must cut their opponents’ decks after the shuffling effect is completed.

Once players shuffle and/or cut their opponents’ decks, the cards are returned to their original owners. If the opponent has shuffled the player’s deck, that player may make one final cut.

From: http://www.wizards.com/dci/downloads/DCI_UTR_1Jun07_EN.pdf

[Johnny_Magic]

if I see someone 2:1 shuffling when they present their deck I pile shuffle it into three piles then give it back to them. that way the ratio is all lands and all spells lol

[Trick]

LOL, nice

[gleemax]

if I see someone 2:1 shuffling when they present their deck I pile shuffle it into three piles then give it back to them. that way the ratio is all lands and all spells lol

You're being nice.  You could easily call them on it and get them a match loss and maybe even booted from the tournament.  If the judge didn't rule in your favor, well then afterwards you could still do the 3-pile shuffle.

[Trick]

I don't know, three pile shuffling sounds like quite a torturous punishment to me.

[Lythand]

if I see someone 2:1 shuffling when they present their deck I pile shuffle it into three piles then give it back to them. that way the ratio is all lands and all spells lol

I actually think someone did this to me once........

[SoapSuds92]

Yea, what I do when I find someone stacking their deck is I take their deck, shuffle 3 times, then rifle 2 times, the cut twice, and lay them out as in the same fashion a cardshark in poker would, then act like i pick them up and mess up, leaving cards all out of order.... Then I "apologize" and pile them up, then rifle 2 times and give him the now, utterly screwed up deck 

Anyway... thats only for the worst of cases(He's playing in an arrogant style and stacks his deck). Normally... I rifle once, shuffle twice... then hand them the deck.

For my normal shuffle, I rifle twice, shuffle 3 times, rifle again, shuffle 2 times, then present the deck to be cut/shuffled again.  This usually randomizes it enough.  If i get mana screwed the first game, I will 6-pile table shuffle, then repeat the procedure.

[MN Nick]

if I see someone 2:1 shuffling when they present their deck I pile shuffle it into three piles then give it back to them. that way the ratio is all lands and all spells lol

I actually watched a guy i know catch someone 2:1 shuffling, and not riffling or anything. So he took the deck and split it back to two piles, all land, all playable, cut, and put the land on the bottom, then handed it back to him.

The guy got angrified and tried to shuffle again, but the guy running the place had seen what was happening and told him to take it. He mulls his first hand, and i believe he ended up mulling down to 5 because he didnt get a good hand the second time either.

On top of that he ticked off the shop owner, so he was politely asked not to come back until he learned to play fair.

I guess that will teach him.

[leesteht]

I cannot tell you how many times I've caught someone cheating while shuffling. The "old" rule of legal shuffling, was to provide 3 randomized organizing or "shuffling" of one's deck.

I've seen people look at the bottom of my deck.
I've seen people 2:1 their own deck and present it to me.

I always shuffle people's decks. When I see the old 2:1 I make two stacks and go 2 in one 1 in the other and return it.

When in tournaments, I play for keeps. People should be made to pay for cheating or incompetence.

Casey McCarrel was my first round open Day 2 of a Nationals. I mulliganed 2x game 1 and lost so I watched his eyes and noticed him looking down during my shuffle. I ended up losing game 3. Later finding out that he was DQed for stacking opponents' decks. So, I guess better late than never :P

[MN Nick]

It's really sad that people cheat in magic, but i understand they think they need the edge. I knew a guy who was a habitual liar and cheat. During my first tourney ever (time spiral release) he beat me twice by pulling enough removal to stop me 12 turns in a row by top decking. His deck was literally built, and i suspected, but couldnt prove anything.

Another friend of his had 3 Cabal Therapy's in his limited deck and a bunch of the same slivers in only two colors.

I found out later that they had been to a Pre-release, and were going out to their cars to swap cards inbetween rounds.

Nobody will play with the second guy now, and the first guy got caught stealing dual lands from another friend of mine some time later and is more or less banned from every shop in driving distance.

It all comes around eventually.

[gleemax]

Casey McCarrel was my first round open Day 2 of a Nationals. I mulliganed 2x game 1 and lost so I watched his eyes and noticed him looking down during my shuffle. I ended up losing game 3. Later finding out that he was DQed for stacking opponents' decks. So, I guess better late than never :P

Glad to see I'm not paranoid, I knew stuff like this does happen.  But the real question is, how do you call someone on it?  It's got to be pretty hard to prove because if you call for a deck check your opponent can claim it was you who didn't randomize enough.