[transitive]

i really liked this concept for a show. clearly it is intended for newer players, looking to improve their gameplay fundamentals. i thought you guys did a pretty good job but i have one complaint. the way you kept track of the various types of counters (+1/+1 and suspend) was very sloppy and a potential source of confusion. i like to use dice or beads to keep track of counters, and sometimes i even use different colored dice for different types of counters. it might not be hard to remember the suspend count when there's only 1 cloudskate out but if there's more than one it can get very confusing. what bothered me more though was Trick using his Rustic Clachan face down underneath the card as a +1/+1 counter. This is an actual game state violation, as the Clachan should be in the graveyard and by using it to represent the counter it is giving the impression that it is not in the graveyard. Please, dice or beads for counters in the future.

thanks for the show guys, keep up the good work, and in the future i'd be very enthusiastic to see this exact same type of show done with "celebrity" guests (if you can get your hands on anyone to help you out).

[uskomaton]

Trick wasn't mana screwed. In an aggressive deck like his...getting that much mana is actually an oddity.

Yes, but that is why he was mana screwed, at least that is what we
called it back in the day when you get either too many or too little
land.

I would've definetly mulliganed that hand, especially if I had known
I was up against Project X and even if I had not known that.
As you say it's an aggressive deck and not very mana intensive,
thus you would optimally want 3 lands at max to start off.

[Trick]

transitive - Excellent point. We'll make sure to make tokens and counters easier to track next time.

Re: my bad hand - Yes it was a sub par hand. I was working under the theory that if I kept a flooded hand, my odds were higher of drawing creatures in the coming turns. It was a big gamble, which in the end up screwed me. But that was my logic for it. I should have mulliganed.

-- Trick

[gleemax]

Are you guys going to post the deck lists?  It might allow us better insight into your decisions.  For example, you say you kept a flooded hand in order to draw more creature, this would make alot more sense if we knew you were only playing lke 14 lands or something.  Also, is the only removal really O-ring?  Will all the cheap white removal this is surprising to me.

[Trick]

gleemax, yeah it took me a while to find the lists again. They're up on the first post of the thread now. And you are correct, there was also Sunlance in the deck, I forgot that while we were playing.

-- Trick

[gleemax]

Yeah I thought that was weird, just the o-rings. Thanks for posting the deck lists, it helps put things into perspective.  You actually had a few outs, but you just didn't draw any.  That's sad.  Also the deck is running 25 lands so it's really no surprise you kept getting the mana flood.

[BigFiber]

Yeah I thought that was weird, just the o-rings. Thanks for posting the deck lists, it helps put things into perspective.  You actually had a few outs, but you just didn't draw any.  That's sad.  Also the deck is running 25 lands so it's really no surprise you kept getting the mana flood.

25 is right because 4 are man lands (Muta) and 4 Rustic Clachans (For Trick...Rustic like "I live in a RUSTIC LOOKING HOUSE" Clachan is a type of Kithkin dwelling pronounced CLA-CHAN. The Clachans are strictly better than Plains because they double as combat tricks late game. And the Canopy is there for mid to late game card draw to help the WW deck power out a win. So really its playing 13 Plains...Trick just kept a bad hand. ;)

[Trick]

I suppose I should be thankful it's taken us 25 episodes before my newb play skillz leaked out ;)

[Trick]

Discussion about Reveillark build has been split into a new topic.

-- Trick

[Eruditious]

Long time watcher, first time poster. I would like to start by thanking you guys for going out there and doing this show from week to week.

I noticed a very small play mistake done by both Trick and Lee (and about 95% of Magic player)... It is a very basic part of Magic, thus, I feel it should be done correctly. What am I talking about? How to play a spell.

I saw both of you floating mana and then announcing your spells. Most of the time, this will not be a problem. Sometimes, you will forget a restriction on a spell and attempt to play an illegal spell; let's say you forget Doran has some black and try to Terror him. The way you both were playing, you would have the 1B floating, try to announce the Terror, see that it is illegal, have it go back in your hand, and then be stuck with the 2 mana floating.

Like I said, it's not a big deal, but it can (and will) burn you.

How to play a spell: Announce spell - > announce any necessary targets (creatures, players, lands, etc) - > pay all required costs necessary to place the spell on the stack (mana, life, discards, sacrifices, etc).

Thanks again for going out there and doing what you do!

[Trick]

@Eruditious, You are most certainly correct. And in future tutorial games we'll play it true but given the relaxed nature of our game we weren't playing it strict. Oh, and welcome to the forums!

-- Trick

[leesteht]

You mean I am not "CELEBRITY" enough? :P

[theory]

@Eruditious (or basically anyone who wants to answer - Trick, please feel free to move this to rules if necessary)

Just some housekeeping questions so to speak...  So if the targets are legal an opponent can't counter or respond to the spell until all the costs are paid, correct?  Meaning an opponent can't tap a land in response to a spell declaration before costs are paid.

Thanks!

[imachampion]

@Eruditious (or basically anyone who wants to answer - Trick, please feel free to move this to rules if necessary)

Just some housekeeping questions so to speak...  So if the targets are legal an opponent can't counter or respond to the spell until all the costs are paid, correct?  Meaning an opponent can't tap a land in response to a spell declaration before costs are paid.

Thanks!

The spell is announced and all costs are paid...this includes tapping mana, sacrificing stuff, etc. Then the opponent can respond. Not a second before that. Also once the costs are paid...there is no taking back the spell if the target becomes illegal. If a spell has no legal options...it fizzles...or technically it is countered.

[XIII]

If a spell has no legal options...it fizzles...or technically it is countered.

Wait, so just for example, if I have 2 creatures out... a Timber Wolf and a Kavu Chameleon... and he dark banishes the Chameleon, and I turn it black... he can still do it to Timber Wolf after the Chameleon has been the declared target?