[Trick]

Monday's episode is a rules discussion (I won't tell which), and I'd like to do some more of them but I'd especially love to do it about rules you guys are hazy on. So spill it, what confuses you or what don't you feel you know well.

-- Trick

[XIII]

Monday's episode is a rules discussion (I won't tell which), and I'd like to do some more of them but I'd especially love to do it about rules you guys are hazy on. So spill it, what confuses you or what don't you feel you know well.

-- Trick

Well, with 10th edition coming with rules inserts, a lot of the stuff that I was hazy on is becoming clear.  Some things that bother me is can you block with a creature, have it get dealt fatal damage, and sac it for an ability, after it would have died?  Some judges say yay, some say nay.  I was pissed this prerelease, cuz someone did something, I called shenanigans, judge said it was okay.  I did the same thing later on, judge said I take the damage.

[TarmoPoop]

Actually, yeah, I'd like to know a little bit more about timing rules. Sacrifice and mana abilities are still the fastest right? Are activated abilities just as fast?

[Trick]

Done and done. Monday's episode addresses some of these questions, but this is great feedback! Keep it coming.

-- Trick

[imachampion]

I think that the hardest things to understand are:

Layering aka Timestamping: If I Lignify your creature that has an enhancing ability on it such as Epic Proportions...how big will the creature be?

Static Abilities: Tarmagoyf is in play and is a 1/2 because of a Sorcery in the yard. Opponent plays Shock targeting the Tarmagoyf. What do you mean it lives?

Triggered Abilites: Counterbalance is in play. I tap to play Krosan Grip targeting your Counterbalance. What do you mean you can still counter it?

Activated Abilities: The casting cost is everything up to the colon ( : ). Using Druid Lyrist as an example. The G + T + Sacrifice is the cost of the ability. If someone were to cast Trickbind or Stifle...Druid Lyrist would still be sacrificed and the effect would be countered.

I think that these are the most commonly messed up parts of the game in order of difficulty.

[Trick]

Yeah Layering is a definite topic to cover, but it'll be a doozy. I'd probably to get Erik from Unity in for recording since he is a newly appointed level 3 (that way his head can explode and not mine!)

-- Trick

[imachampion]

If you are going to discuss layering...hopefully you will bring up Humility, Humble, and Lignify. These cards seem innocent to the naked eye...when it comes to rules though...these become quite difficult.

Also maybe you guys could discuss each of the layers...of layering. You know like...This happens during the 4th layer while that happens during the 5th.

[XIII]

If you are going to discuss layering...hopefully you will bring up Humility, Humble, and Lignify. These cards seem innocent to the naked eye...when it comes to rules though...these become quite difficult.

Also maybe you guys could discuss each of the layers...of layering. You know like...This happens during the 4th layer while that happens during the 5th.

Yeah, I was pissed.  At the prerelease I was playing against a doran deck, the kid lignified my 0/0 with 6 +1/+1 counters.  I had a 10/10, I told the kid, he called the judge, the judge said I was right, the kid took back his move.  Not only did that kid fix his deck between rounds, but he also took back moves.  C'mon.

[imachampion]

I watched a match at the pre-release that went something like that. I don't think that Doran, the Seige Tower was in play though.

[Trick]

The Layering episode, when it is done, will utilize our green screen liberally, don't worry ;)

-- Trick

[UnityErik]

I wouldn't worry about not getting layers. Even some high level judges have to look up what happens where every once in a while.

[imachampion]

The problem with layers is that they are sometimes very unique questions. Such as if thiss thiss thiss and that happen....what happens if I do this. The only reason to understand Layers is to learn to use them to your advantage.

[theory]

I'd really like some more clarification on the timing between "at end of turn" and "until end of turn."  I think this might have been a topic on one of the episodes (don't remember) but I still don't get why there's a difference since they both refer to the same phase?

[imachampion]

At end of turn means this:

As soon as you reach your end of turn step...this trigger goes off and the effect is carried out. Here is an example for you.

You use Incandescent Soulstoke to put an elemental into play. It gains haste and then you sacrifice it at the end of the turn.

That seems easy enough. However when thinking about how "At End of Turn" works...think of it like "At the Beginning of the End of Your Turn Step." At the beginning of the end of your turn a triggered effect is put on the stack saying that you must sacrifice that elemental.

Now lets shake things up a little bit. Lets assume that you are in your Second Main Phase. You pass priority to your opponent with an empty stack. Your opponent passes priority back to you with an empty stack. Now its the Beginning of the End of your turn. Now you use Incandescent Soulstoke to put an elemental into play. Once the ability resolves...it is no longer the Beginning of the End of your turn. Therefore the game is no longer going to see that it is supposed to be sacrificed. However...at the end of your next turn...Once the Beginning of the End of your turn happens...that triggered ability will go on the stack and you will be forced to sacrifice that creature.

Does that make sense?

Until End of Turn means this:

Until end of turn doesn't care at what point of the End of Turn step you are in. This is where cards like Mutavault would revert back into lands. Or when the effect from Giant Growth or Rightousness wears off.

Does this make sense?

Most of the time WOTC uses the term "Until end of turn." However on occasion they will throw in the oddity just for the sake of "Breaking" the rules. I hope this better explains how this works.

[theory]

Ah, didn't realize "At end of turn..." only referenced the beginning of the end of your turn.  So does "Until end of turn..." reference to the actual turn itself and not any phases or steps?

Also just another thing to clarify (unrelated to previous).  Can you add spells/abilities to the stack in response to your own spells/abilities?  I feel like this is a basic timing issue I should have learned but I was always under the impression that if an opponent passes priority after one of your spells/abilities you must resolve the stack before you can do anything else.